Omar Apollo has been going through it.
“2023 really tore me up,” he recently tweeted, reflecting on a year in which he felt “trapped” in his own mind.
It wasn’t all bad, of course. The 27-year-old artist started 2023 by walking the Grammys red carpet with his mom as a Best New Artist nominee, before playing sold-out shows in arenas across the country with SZA. But he also faced challenges, including heavy turmoil in his love life, which resulted in some of the saddest songs he’s ever written.
Apollo’s new album God Said No is an unmistakably vulnerable piece of music in which he dives head-first into his own emotional unrest. After all, that’s the creative process he’s always felt the most comfortable with. “I think there has to be suffering in any art,” he says. “Because that's the only way tenderness comes, and tenderness comes from pain. I gravitate towards that because my natural state is always longing.”
The album’s subject matter gets so heavy, in fact, that he encourages fans to listen to it alone before they play it around others. But despite the somber songwriting, God Said No is far from a sluggish record. Apollo has always been a man of duality—just as comfortable making stupid jokes around his friends as he is having deep conversations about his feelings—and the album is an emotional rollercoaster. He made a conscious decision to inject God Said No with a “summery” energy, which took the form of a few of his most danceable records to date. (If you’re a fan of uptempo Omar Apollo bangers like “Tomagachi,” you won’t be disappointed by new songs like "Against Me," "Less of You," and "How.") And as he points out, every track on the album was "made and written to be sung live."
Before the God Said No, Apollo stopped by Complex’s office in LA to discuss his latest obsessions, conversations that shaped the album, his thoughts on pop music right now, and more. The interview, lightly edited for clarity, is below.
How's life? How's your headspace right now?
Life is good. I was on tour in Europe, and I was really burnt out and tired, but I'm recovered now. I've been sleeping good, eating good, staying healthy, seeing family, and all that good shit.
Have you had any recent obsessions lately?
I became obsessed with candleholders recently. I was like, "I'm going to buy a $10,000 candleholder." Then I was like, "Let me relax," but I love the idea of real light in a house. I think it's so beautiful. I'm literally obsessed, it's fucked up. I also got really into Bernardo Bertolucci movies recently, and I’m trying to watch all of 'em. Same with Catherine Breillat. I’ve been watching a lot of movies.
What's a $10,000 candleholder like?
It's from the 1800s. I'm really into antique things right now because I feel like I need a mix of modern and antique, otherwise it feels too fucking modern. I don't know, I just get into shit like that. [Laughs.]
Are you furnishing a new place or something?
No. [Laughs.] I actually just came from a furniture store and they have a daybed that is so beautiful, but it's $30,000. I was like, "You know what? That might be a vibe." [Laughs.]
What else is taking up most of your time these days?
Work, for sure. My personal life is good. It's stable, calm, good. Everyone's fine. My friendships are solid. It's a good time.
So you aren't putting on fur coats every day and getting mobbed in the streets of New York?
I mean, I'm always dressing amazing. [Laughs.] I'm glamorous every day.
What do you remember about that listening session in New York, though? I saw videos of you dancing on top of cars in a fur coat and shit. It looked crazy.
Before we did that, I did a listening thing in Brazil, but they wouldn't let anybody in and there were so many people outside. It was kind of lame. When I walked outside, there was a swarming mob, and when I was getting to my car, everyone was saying hi and taking photos. It was a whole thing. But then I'm like, "Damn, this is kind of lit. This is kind of fun." I've never been to Brazil, so it was nice to see the supporters. Then my team was like, "Yo, you should do that again, but play the music outside." So they sent us two big ass trucks in New York and we got speakers in the back. We just started to turn up. That was tight. It was finally time to release music that we've been working on for years. It felt like the return.
What's your relationship like with your current level of fame?
It's tight. I actually really fuck with this level of fame. It reminds me of Seinfeld. You know how some people go up to him in the show, and they're just like, "Oh, you're the funny guy"? It's like that vibe.
So it's not too much?
No, it's not that bad. I mean, people recognize me or look at me. It depends where I'm at. For instance, if I'm in Tribeca all day, I'm good. But as soon as I step in the East Village, it's heads turning and pictures. It's this whole thing. But you've just got to know where you're at. Honestly, it's not bad.
If you woke up tomorrow and you were one of the biggest artists on the planet, what would your reaction be? Would you be, like, "Yeah, I'm ready for this"?Yeah, I'll be straight. I've been doing it for a long time. And it's really about how you move. Just don't be dumb. Don't be by yourself in East Village or whatever. But I'm excited to... I'm thinking about bread right now. I'm thinking about what I would do with money, creatively, and how I’d spend my time. I'd be with my family, those types of things. Honestly, I just want to have breakfast with my family outside with like a fucking egg. You know? It's chill. I don't need much. I have the relationships in my life, with my friends and everything, that I feel really whole with. So if I were to wake up like that, I'd be okay. It'd be fine.
I can tell you're having fun with it, and you’re always joking around. Why is it important to be silly and have fun, even when shit's intense and stressful?
It's a balance. I mean, shit is intense and it's stressful, but for me, it's always just been a part of my personality to bring light to a situation with comedy. It's also a style of comedy that I just really enjoy. I take my music super serious—I don't play about it—but I can't be anything but myself. I have no persona. I just reflect what feels authentic to me. Like, the whole mystique vibe is cool, I get it. But you can get that, too, and still be funny. But nah, I mean, when I walk in a room, it's vibe. [Laughs.] I'm not tripping.
What's the last piece of music you heard from another artist that inspired you so much you wanted to run to the studio?
Opus 17, this piano thing. And I went to New York and recorded a piano thing that was inspired by it.
What do you think of pop music right now? What's been exciting you?
"Everything is romantic" by Charli xcx. She's killing it. She's really showing the girls. She's a blueprint and people should respect that. I love the way pop music is going. I feel like it's becoming less of a formulaic thing, and more about the individual and about artistry, which is cool. That’s how it should be. I love pop music. It's dope. There's good shit. Sabrina Carpenter, "Please, Please, Please." What an amazing melody. That melody?! Let's talk about it!
Let's get into the new album, God Said No. When did that title come to you?
I was having a conversation in the studio with a few of my friends, and the conversation was about love—romantic love—and how it could feel like this exaggerated feeling of just, "Oh, I want to be with you forever. I want to marry you." These thoughts come and you trust them and you feel like they're meant for you. And then you're like, "All I have to do is put in the work to have a foundation of love," and all these things: "It's meant for me, it's meant for me, it's meant for me." And then it ended up not being meant for me. And then that's where my friend was like, "Well, God said no." And then it just made me think of a higher power already creating this illusion of free will, and it's already decided. It was just this acceptance of being like, "OK, I thought I was right. I thought that this was for me," and it actually ended up being not. So that's where the title came from.
Were there any other conversations that shaped the album in a big way?
There were tons. It was me and Teo Halm in the studio for the first three or four months of it, and that's one of my best friends. I've known him since I was like 18, and we’ve always had great chemistry. We always get really personal with our conversations and we talk about what's going on in our lives in real time.
We were kind of going through the same thing and when we were in the studio, we had so many conversations about what to do. "What do we do? What do we do?" It had nothing to do with the music, but these conversations ended up being reflected in the songs. There were a lot of questions. "What is this? Why? Why? Why?" And then you formulate your answer throughout the song.
The other day, you tweeted, "God Say No is my saddest writing. Wow. 2023 really tore me up." Why do you think you gravitated towards such sad music this time?
I think every song I've made has been from some type of suffering, whether it's with love or with family or just with life in general. I think there has to be suffering in any art. I believe that, because that's the only way tenderness comes, and tenderness comes from pain. I think I gravitate towards that because my natural state is always longing. It probably has to do with child development and things like that. But whenever I'm in a very chaotic situation, my comfort that I go to is longing, because then I feel like there's something to want. And when you want, it makes life exciting.
A lot of people will assume you mean it was a challenging year romantically, when you say it was a "difficult year." Or were there other difficult things happening?
Yeah, a large component was love and romance. But at the same time, it was also just life. It was my own path—my brain, my mind, that I felt trapped in.
Were some of the songs so sad that they were difficult to write and record?
Yeah, I mean all of it. There's a piece of me that's inside of that. It's a proof of pain, the whole album. It's real emotions and real lived experiences. So, yeah, for sure. Now I've detached myself from the work, and it still exists within the work, but now I've come to terms with it and I've let it go. Now it isn't mine anymore. It's to be interpreted and to be listened to and enjoyed, and that's all you can ask for. Then it's onto the next.
When you perform these songs, does it bring those sad emotions back? Or are you able to keep a distance?
A lot of times when I'm performing, I'm really focused, but yes, it does. Fully. 100%. But you just kind of deal with it. I've been doing it for so long, but I remember at one time it did feel really, really heavy onstage, where I'm just like, "Ooh, I don't know if I'm ready to say this to a room full of people." And it was the same way about songwriting. I couldn't songwrite in front of anybody and I couldn't talk about. People would ask me what my songs were about and I'd get so offended, like, "Why are you asking me what my song's about? Fuck yourself, you piece of shit." [Laughs.] But now I've built the ability and developed the skill to use my language and talk about what's going on in the song and what they're about.
There's a lot of sad songwriting on this, but there are also some more hopeful and upbeat moments. What do you think the happiest song on the album is?
Probably "Against Me." With lyrics and all. It's just kind of like, "Oh, sorry, I can't love you."
I like how confident you sound on that song. When did you realize you were "the baddest bitch"?
[Laughs.] Shit, my ego just gets fed all the time. It's so funny... I never considered my own beauty, since I was a little kid. I didn't even know people could be attracted to me. I didn't even feel it. And then once I really realized who I was sexually and things like that, I started to desire people. I remember the first time someone found me attractive and we had a little thing, I remember being so confused. I was like, "Why do you find me attractive?" Because I think my standard of beauty, especially in America, was not portrayed. I didn't see it. I didn't see people who look like me that were considered beautiful. So I'd had that insecurity almost. And now I feel confident. I'm grown. I know that I am beautiful in my own way. And then that just turned into me being like, "Oh yeah, I am the baddest bitch. What's up?"
I mean, it's deep. I remember one time being at a party and this guy said some shit that just pissed me off. I walked away. He called me ugly or whatever. It was a white man. And then I was just like, "Alright, you know what? I'm out. Boom." He goes and tells my friend, like, "I hope Omar didn't get mad. I was just joking. He's obviously the hottest guy here." And I was just like, "Well, you don't know how I've dealt with beauty in my entire life. You don't understand that. Your beauty has been actualized on the screens and all these things. And for me it's different. And I grew up differently. I grew up being called ugly and all these slurs, and that's not my experience." So when someone said that to me, I'm just like, "I'm out. I don't even want to hear it. Bye, boom." And it's also just a rude thing to say, and I feel like it's a power thing. Like they're trying to take power of someone that's intimidating them or something. But yeah, now I just embrace it.
The album covers a lot of deep, emotional territory, but there are also upbeat dance songs. How did you go about piecing all of these songs together into a cohesive package? I'm sure that was like putting together a puzzle.
Yeah, it took a long time to really get the flow of it. And I was like, "Oh my God, the album slows down too much here," or whatever. Luckily, I had a lot of people that really trusted that gave me perspectives to think about while I was sequencing it. After I gave Teo the list, he did transitions to make them all flow into each other and give it a front-to-back listening effect where the songs all go into each other in some way. And I think that's important, because this is the sort of album I would want somebody to listen to the whole thing.
Now that you're finished, what's your favorite thing about it? Or something that you're really proud of?
The song "Drifting" is one of my favorites ever. And it started so differently. It was a power ballad. It was in a completely different key, in a completely different performance, and then it turned into this nostalgic, four-on-the-floor, driving vibe. And there's also "While You Can." Insane song. There's "Glow," which has some of my best writing ever. The verses on that song, the way I was singing it, the pacing, the instruments, and the production is just... That's going to sound crazy in an arena. It's going to sound nuts.
What song are you most excited to play live?
All of them. They're all made and written to be sung live. Literally, I was making a setlist for the God Said No Tour, and every song is on there.
There are some dance songs on here. What inspired you to get into that bag?
I had somebody tell me, like, "You need to make more computer music." And I was just like, "What do you mean?" And they showed me a bunch of shit and I was like, "Alright, cool." And then I made it the next day. I was making that type of song for a week or something, and "Less of You" was my favorite one. And then "Spite" was just me working with Blake Slatkin and Teo together, and we had this summery kind of energy that we felt like the album needed. Then "Done With You," I made when I was drunk. I was just singing the first verse and the chorus. I had that for a long time. It was just guitar. And then eventually when I moved to London, I finished all those songs that I started in LA.
Are you the kind of artist who likes to play your album for other artists when you're finished recording?
Yeah, but not so much other artists. If I do, it's like two people. But yeah, I send demos that I'm mumbling on for 12 minutes. I'll just be like, "This shit fire, ain't it?" Just because it's fun to make music in the beginning stages of it and having an idea that's not actualized yet.
Now that you're finished with this album, how does it make you feel?
Honestly, it's a heavy album. I am excited, also like, I don't know... When I dropped "Dispose of Me," I was so excited, and then I was on Discord with all the fans that were there. I was so hype. I was like, "Yo, five minutes go crazy!" I'm in there chatting and then everyone was just like, "Yo, what the fuck? This shit is fucking sad. We thought we were going to get a little banger. We're all crying." So I am excited. But at the same time, I know that it's something that isn't a passive listen. It's something that I feel should be listened to alone. But I am so excited for it to be out, because I can't wait to perform the songs and sing them and work on the stage design and all of that. I'm so excited to deliver it to the world.
Is there anything else you want fans to know before pressing play on it?
Listen by yourself, probably. And then listen with somebody.
What is a misconception about you? What do you get wrong?
Something they get wrong about me? I really don't care. [Laughs.] I can't control it. That's why I don't care. I don't give it any energy, because how I'm perceived is far out of my control. I can control the things that I say, but I can't control somebody chopping something up and then putting it up or seeing a photo or whatever it is... It ain't my business, I'm chilling. I have my problems, and I have the people in my life that I worry about, just like you have the people in your life that you worry about, but I don't feel like I need to clear anything up ever. It is what it is, and it ain't what it ain't, you know?
That's definitely the most healthy approach.
Yeah, it's something I learned. Because there was a point in time when I was looking shit up, like, "What the fuck are they saying?"
What's the smartest thing you've ever done?
Probably investing hella money when I was like 21. I got my first big check and I invested all of it, and now it's up. [Laughs.] I haven't touched it.
Did you invest in crypto at the right time or some shit?
Nah, I just had a great financial advisor. I was like, "Damn, I'm going to keep this for another 20 years before I open this." So I'll be 47, like, loaded. [Laughs.] I don't even got to make music, for real. [Laughs.]
What’s the dumbest thing you've ever done?
There's a lot of dumb shit. The first dumb shit I ever did was buy a car in cash. It was like a hundred thousand dollars and I didn't have credit. That's so dumb. That was fucked. It was a Tesla Model X. I ended up getting rid of it because I hated that car. I really stand on all my bad decisions, though. I'm always like, "Oh yeah, I did that." [Laughs.]
What's your favorite thing on the internet right now?
Two things. There's the Michael Jackson video where he's like, "None of it's true. None of it's true. They made it up! None of it's true." That shit kills me. I'm dead. And then probably the Twitch stream with Kevin Hart and Drewski and Kai Cenat. That was so funny. I was genuinely dying.
What's your least favorite thing on the internet right now?
I hate when people get too serious. There's just a lot of hate that's so unnecessary. It's just like, "Damn, y'all care that much? Let that bitch breathe. Relax." It ain't that serious. And I bet if you were to look into the person's life who's hating, they've done way worse. I promise. That's why they're mad about it. Because they're seeing themselves. You're seeing yourself in this other person and it angers you. Now what?
What's the meaning of life?
Honestly, not even trying to be on some boring shit, but it's probably to grow and learn from situations. You don't have to be visible and you don't have to be extremely impactful. You just have to mean something to the people that are in your life and grow with them. I think souls travel in families, and I think that we're all supposed to learn from each other. And give. Take what you have to offer and give it. I think that's the meaning of life for me right now. One day it might be, like, fucking snowboarding. [Laughs.] I don't know.
