In 2020, Lil Yachty sent a DM to James Blake. He was so geeked about Blake’s fourth album, Assume Form, that he felt compelled to reach out. “I just wanted to tell him that the album was fucking flawless,” says Yachty.
Blake never saw the message so he didn’t respond—he wasn’t using IG at the moment, he says—but Yachty’s reachout planted a seed, and eventually the universe conspired to bring them together via a mutual friend, Cam Hicks. “I've been a fan of Yachty for years,” says Blake. “And when I heard his last record [Let's Start Here], I was like, this is really a turn. Not many artists are brave enough to do something that’s kind of opposite of the last thing they did.”
An intro turned into an experimental studio session, which turned into another session, which then turned into multiple sessions to create a joint album that’s different from anything they’ve done as solo artists. Titled Bad Cameo, the ambient record merges Yachty’s ear for unexpected melodies with Blake’s soulful tone and sharp production skills. The music is trippy, ethereal, and deep, maybe the deepest Yachty’s gone. “We got a really vulnerable side of Yachty in some of those sessions,” says Blake.
We weren’t able to observe them in the studio together, but we imagined that if we put them in a beautiful home in the Hollywood Hills and prompted them to share songs with each other (“passing the aux”), it would simulate some of the private convos they had while making Bad Cameo. Thankfully we were right, and prompts ranging from “what’s the first song you memorized?” to “what’s the song you love that everyone hates?” yielded a playlist of genre-expanding (and defining) music. But it also allowed both to get introspective and heady.
Read on to see what songs elicited a layered conversation touching on the importance of therapy, Yachty’s relationship with his daughter, and why Blake doesn't play music during sex.
THE SONG YOU LOVE
THAT EVERYONE HATES?
JAMES BLAKE’S CHOICE:
"Poland" by Lil Yachty
JAMES BLAKE: I just love it.
LIL YACHTY: Who said everyone hated it?
JB: No, no, it's just because the question said… what was it? What was the question again?
LY: What's the song that you love that everyone hates?
JB: Oh. Well I love it. I'll just say that. I love it. It's a great song. It's pure avant-garde.
LIL YACHTY’S CHOICE:
"715 - CR∑∑KS" by Bon Iver
LIL YACHTY: Any time I play it, or at least when I play it around Black people, they're like, “What the fuck is going on right now?” But I really love this song. One thing about this song is there's no beat. He's just acapella singing with the coolest effects. And then one night I just looked up the lyrics and man, he is saying some real deep shit. I think Bon Iver is one of my favorite songwriters. I can't wait to sit down and have a talk with him, but I think the mesh between the strong filters that he runs his vocals through, it sometimes makes it easy to get lost in translation of the feeling. And I think unless you genuinely took the time to read out what he's saying, it can go past you. I've listened to his self-titled albums for years and didn't have a clue what the fuck he was even saying until I started reading the lyrics and being like, “Oh shit, this is deep as fuck.” His songs are really deep, along with this record. Every time I play it, people just think it's demonic and kind of robot-y. If you’re just on a night home ride and I play that, or if you are on an acid trip, you play it, people are just like, “This is really creepy.” But I think it's awesome. I think he's so fucking sick.
THE FIRST SONG YOU MEMORIZED?
LIL YACHTY’S CHOICE:
“Let ’Em In” by Paul McCartney / Wings
LY: That was definitely one of the first songs I ever heard. All these things, without knowing, just made me the person I am today. When I was a kid, my dad used to have this really big CD book in the car. My dad used to burn CDs. And when I started getting to an age of being able to read, he just let me pick the CD we listened to in the car. And I'd be going through the records and reading the CDs and you have the booklet in front and I’d put something on, and he’d be like “OK, I like this.” Or sometimes I just would pick an album based off of the cover. And it was a very early on experience that just put me in a world of being so open to so much music.
JB: Yeah. This, to be honest, explains a lot just from your musical sensibilities.
LY: And just the melodies. I mean they were so great. My dad loved The Beatles.
JB: It's also happy music. And I noticed that that runs through your music. So often we sort of mythologize sad music and sadness and depression and all these things and talking about your anxiety, whatever it is, there's so much pain in music. But it doesn't always have to go there. I mean, on this record you were talking about so many different things. There's pain, there's happiness, there's everything in between. But that vibe is so sunny and it's kind of what your disposition is in your music.
LY: Do you think people should see therapists if they're happy or only if they're sad?
JB: I think what therapy can do is maintain a healthy mind. Because ultimately a lot of the disconnect we feel between us and others is words that are unsaid and dynamics that are unresolved. But in terms of interpersonal dynamics… I think if you are happy, that's wonderful. But I do think those thoughts and those words that are not being said can build up and build up and build up. And they can essentially overwhelm the dynamic if you're someone who's just really honest with everyone and all your relationships are great. And I don't think everyone should just be in therapy by default.
I think it can be useful to maintain a healthy mind and keep the thoughts coming out rather than ruminating depending on what kind of person you are. But I also see therapy as part of a whole ecosystem of being happy. That's not where you go to get happy. I see it as one aspect, basically.
JAMES BLAKE’S CHOICE:
“(Sittin' On) the Dock of the Bay” by Otis Redding
LIL YACHTY: I never heard this.
JAMES BLAKE: Oh, I thought you’re joking.
LY: What do you think it is that gave soul music artists their tone? I feel like there aren't musicians who have that specific tone.
JB: Yeah, I think his voice is up there with probably Donny Hathaway. I mean there's more, obviously. I'm just thinking of two people off the top of my head.
LY: But I mean tons of soul music back then, the tone, there was just a level of richness to it. And I don't know if it's the progression of music, maybe genre change and just artist development shift, but you don't feel that tone of music anymore. But also it does sound like a certain time period. So maybe also that plays a part.
JB: There are singers now who have exceptional tone. I think the way producers package those vocals means that we're not really exposed to their real true tone and voice. In most modern records you've got pitch correction, which people know as autotune, but it doesn't have to be straight hard autotune for anyone who doesn't sort of use it or know it. It can just be slight adjustments in pitch if you don't quite hit the note. And every one thing you do to a vocal takes it one step away from feeling human. So if you compress a vocal too much, then that doesn't sound like the real dynamic range of a human voice because it sounds flat. We have dynamics. Sometimes we're soft, sometimes loud. In that song, when he's loud, you really hear it. When he's soft, you really feel it. Then it's like pitch correction, compression, and then sometimes EQ, which basically means taking some of the frequencies out. And we've just kind of done this to the human voice to the point where it just sounds microwaved. And a lot of singers now, they can't really pitch as well as some of these guys because they had to nail that song in one take for the record. And when they went out and played live, there wasn't like, oh, I went and saw Otis Redding and he wasn't that good live. No, that didn't exist. It sounds like that. So things have changed a lot and I think a lot of the singers are out of practice as well.
LY: It's very interesting. I had this idea of these certain songs that I wanted to make. And my favorite type of singing is ’90s Black women on R&B records. It’s just the tone of how they sang. Like Xscape and Kut Klose. It was like a Black feeling. And that sound isn't really in R&B anymore.
“TONS OF SOUL MUSIC BACK THEN, THE TONE, THERE WAS JUST A LEVEL OF RICHNESS TO IT...BUT YOU DON’T FEEL THAT TONE OF MUSIC ANYMORE.”
– LIL YACHTY
THE LAST SONG
THAT MADE YOU CRY?
JAMES BLAKE’S CHOICE:
“Go Easy, Kid.” by Monica Martin
LIL YACHTY: Do you think she's speaking to herself?
JAMES BLAKE: Yeah. I love the “go easy kid, in 20 years kid you're going to look back and wish she grabbed it all by the throat.” I really resonate with that line. I think I've not been present for so much of my life because I've been, I don’t know, on screens. I think I've lived an amazing life, but I just think I could have been more present and I think I will have that regret when I'm older. I'm trying to remedy that now at 55.
LY: Excuse me?
JB: At 35.
LY: Got it.
JB: I was just seeing if he blinked. But Monica's voice to me is… When we were talking about great voices or timeless voices like Donny Hathaway, Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, and Aretha [Franklin], I think Monica's is that for me. Her tone is next level and if you see her perform live, it's really truly magical. She's not like anyone else. She's on “Run From the Rabbit” on our album.
YACHTY’S CHOICE: An unreleased song about his daughter.
JAMES BLAKE: So beautiful. What you’re saying on it is beautiful.
LIL YACHTY: It’s almost like I was talking to her later.
JB: I love that whole idea of a song that she’ll grow up listening to.
LY: When I was doing it, it was the realization of the situation. The realization of being a father. It's interesting because thinking things in your head, you can mask the reality of a thought. But for me it's like, when you vocalize something, it makes things feel a lot more real. So for me I think it was writing those words down, saying them, it just made me feel the way. It was just like, damn.
JB: It's really beautiful. Also the feeling of the music behind it. I can tell why you chose that beat because it just feels wistful and sort of, I don’t know, endless. It just keeps going round and creates this perfect bed for you to just tell the story or say how you feel about her. It's really beautiful.
“WHEN I WAS DOING IT, IT WAS THE REALIZATION OF THE SITUATION. THE REALIZATION OF BEING A FATHER.”
– LIL YACHTY
THE FIRST SONG YOU RECORDED THAT
YOU FELT WAS PERFECT?
YACHTY’S CHOICE:
“the BLACK seminole” by Lil Yachty
LIL YACHTY: I don't know if I've ever thought a song was perfect. I think that's a very unobtainable world. But it'd probably be something off of Let's Start Here. Probably “the BLACK seminole.” And then I have this record that was going to be the outro of the album that we didn't use that was called the “Come Down.” And it was about how you feel after you just did a trip on acid or something. It was also really beautiful. But just the goal I had in mind for “BLACK seminole” came after being in my room alone many nights thinking I could never, ever do anything Roger Waters has ever did. And obviously by all means, it is nothing like Pink Floyd. I never want anyone to think that’s what I’m saying. But it just made me feel like I made a record that will be played for the rest of time.
“THE GOAL I HAD IN MIND FOR ‘BLACK SEMINOLE’ CAME AFTER BEING IN MY ROOM ALONE MANY NIGHTS THINKING I COULD NEVER, EVER DO ANYTHING ROGER WATERS HAS EVER DID.” – LIL YACHTY
JAMES BLAKE: It's an amazing song. It's one of my favorites of yours. It really comes across that you felt like, OK, that's one of the ones. Because it is. And there's an extremely high energy sort of feeling to that song.
LY: Thank you. And I love the fact that it can cohesively live in the same discography as “Poland.”
JB: And by the way. Obviously I played it as one of the songs that made me cry. But I think that song's fucking amazing. I listen to it quite regularly. And I think it is a really fucking weird song. And somehow it still ended up being one of your most popular songs, which is crazy because most people's weirdest song doesn't become their most popular song.
LY: I stopped trying to calculate things. I used to try and be so calculated and say, oh, that song won't work because it doesn't have this many hooks or a bridge. That song was a true accident.
JB: Wait. In what way?
LY: Well, we were doing Let’s Start Here. And we had a break when my band went to get food or something and I was just there with the guys and the engineer and there was a Poland Spring water bottle on the table while I was just sitting in front of the mic. And it's always some wock around. Always. So I was just like, oh shit. A lot of times if I'm in the booth and there's the glass where I can see my friends talking or something, sometimes I'll sing about what they're doing. And I kind of just was singing “I took the wock to Poland.” And that song would've never left my hard drive.
JB: I mean that sentence has probably never existed before you. And it's interesting because there's so many cliche lyrics that crop up in songs all the time. And when someone's writing a song, they're just going, OK, what's going to be a phrase here that will sound euphonic? And it’s not going to disturb the flow. And mostly the things that don't disturb flow are things you've heard before. But, I took the wock to Poland. I mean, it's never been said.
“I STOPPED TRYING TO CALCULATE THINGS. I USED TO TRY AND BE SO CALCULATED AND SAY, OH, THAT SONG WON’T WORK BECAUSE IT DOESN’T HAVE THIS MANY HOOKS OR A BRIDGE.” – LIL YACHTY
JAMES BLAKE’S CHOICE:
“The Colour In Anything” by James Blake
Yachty: That's really sick. Thank God I don't have to play one of my songs after that.
THE SONG YOU MOST REGRET MAKING?
JAMES BLAKE’S CHOICE:
“Sparing the Horses” by James Blake
JAMES BLAKE: So there is this one track, it was called “Sparing the Horses.” And when I put it out, they got the label wrong. It said, “Sparring the Horses.”
LIL YACHTY: Like fighting?
JB: Yeah, like fighting the horse, which just as soon as it came out I was like, oh, this now means something totally different. And also it's just so stupid. If I hadn't made the song then that thing wouldn't have happened. But I genuinely don't regret any song.
LY: As much as I want to regret something, I think everything that I've ever done has made me the person I am now. And I feel as if I didn't have certain time periods of figuring out myself for the worse or for the better, then I wouldn't be as grateful for where I am now as a musician. Also, I think it took me a long time to get to this point of not regretting something from my discography. Because I downplayed a lot of my old records. But I think genuinely if it wasn't for those records or that time period, I wouldn't be as grateful to be in the predicament that I am now as an artist. And, I don't think I would have had enough fire behind me to want to improve or want to get to a certain place or get a certain level of respect. Or maybe I would've been a lot more comfortable had I just always thought everything I did was perfect. But the period of time where I was not the most into the songs that I was making, I needed it. It's all a part of my story. For better and for worse.
JB: I feel the same way. And there are songs I sort of think I didn't do the best job on. I don't feel like there's a song I regret actually putting out. But there's different levels of feeling completed or like I did a good job. And there were some songs as well where I got features or did something where I just thought it would be the right thing to do and it just sort of didn't really feel that great. I obviously can't go into that because it wouldn't be fair, but there were just times when it just didn't need that or I shouldn't have been part of a piece of music. There's no reason. There's actually been quite a few songs that I have actually taken my name off because I did a session and they just didn't loop me in. And six months go by, and suddenly it's on an album and I'm like, well, I didn't have any say in how this sounds at all. And they've just taken it and made it 10 times worse. And then I've just been like, actually I'm good. It is all taste obviously. But there've been things I'm glad I don't regret because I made sure I wouldn't.
“THERE’S ACTUALLY BEEN QUITE A FEW SONGS THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN MY NAME OFF BECAUSE I DID A SESSION AND THEY JUST DIDN’T LOOP ME IN.”
– JAMES BLAKE
THE SONG BY ANOTHER ARTIST YOU WISH YOU MADE OR WROTE?
LIL YACHTY’S CHOICE:
“White Ferrari” by Frank Ocean
LIL YACHTY: I really wish I could do this.
JAMES BLAKE: When he hits that [sings]. That part of his voice is just pretty incredible.
LY: Isn't it? It is amazing. That and “0.00” by Childish Gambino, which is another record that has no lyrics. But this type of shit is so sick to me. It just makes you feel like you've left your body or something.
JB: I love this. Have you heard Talk Talk? There’s an album called Spirit of Eden.
LY: I have it in my phone. This song is mind blowing because it is like two genres in one. I heard this song when we were making Let's Start Here.
JB: So “The Rainbow” is my favorite.
LY: This song blew my mind.
JB: Absolutely. Next level.
LY: It goes from sounding like an acoustic song and then it just kind of shifts. And his voice is the same.
JB: I think I'm going to be bold and say this, which I don't know, it might be sacrilegious, but I think our album reminds me of this album in terms of the intention. They went in there and they just made whatever came.
LY: It came out in ’88.
JB: Yes. The year I was born. There was nothing cynical about it. It was the record after they had their huge pop record. No one knew what they were going to do, I think. And they just kind of made the most free record.
LY: It’s sick. It’s definitely limitless.
JB: Completely limitless. And it's the space in it. And even when the drums come it's just so organic. It's one of my favorite albums of all time.
THE SONG YOU’VE PLAYED DURING SEX?
LIL YACHTY: I really can't imagine you even having sex and I really don't want to imagine it.
JAMES BLAKE: I know which one that is.[Plays “Poland.”]
LY: Too predictable.
JB: I actually don't play music.
LY: I could see you having sex in utter silence.
JB: I request complete silence, please. Like pindrop.
LY: You probably put on cricket sounds and just go at it to the sound of like, frogs.
JB: You know what bothers me about playing music when you have sex is when you hear a certain lyric, it makes you laugh. I can hear the lyrics too well. I'm tuned into the lyrics. So I would have to vet every single song on a playlist. Otherwise it would take me out of it completely.
LY: Would you say music is a part of your all day everyday experiences?
JB: No.
“I COULD SEE YOU HAVING SEX IN UTTER SILENCE.”
– LIL YACHTY
LY: That's the same with Drake. When I started hanging with him a lot, he rarely listens to music except for when he's recording. I'm going to wake up, music, driving, music, showering, music, eating, music. He's more of a talking type of person and plays music when it's time to record. Sometimes he plays music in the car, but he'll ride in silence most times. And before we got this close, I thought all musicians were like me and music was all day every day.
JB: I know a lot of people who just don't really want to consume that much outside of what they make. And actually I'm a bit like that. I make music for myself. I say I don't listen to music. Obviously I do. There's loads of albums I love. And if I'm driving and we're going on a road trip or something, I'll play music in the car. But I really value peace. They're a bit like this constant sound of water that disturbs for me the rhythms of my mind. But I also, when I get really stressed, I'll listen to ambient music.
LY: You said this interrupts your brain. The waterfall?
JB: I mean, I’m conscious of it. Maybe being a producer, I just sort of isolate sounds really easily. For example, this ambient noise. A lot of people can just tune shit out and I just can’t tune shit out.
“BEFORE [DRAKE AND I] GOT THIS CLOSE, I THOUGHT ALL MUSICIANS WERE LIKE ME AND MUSIC WAS ALL DAY EVERY DAY.”
–LIL YACHTY
LY: I just want to ask you one more question that wasn't on here, because I’m genuinely curious. What do you think is the album you've played the most in your free time?
JB: There's probably a few I could say, and I'll probably forget. But I would say Voodoo by D’Angelo. I had it on vinyl and I probably wore the record out. Blue by Joni Mitchell. I've probably played that the most out of any record of all time. Stevie [Wonder] Fulfillingness' First Finale.
LY: There's still many artists’ discographies that I genuinely have to go back and deep dive into because I’m young and didn’t grow up on it. That’s what excites me about music. There’s still so much that I have yet to experience.
JB: I just think it's amazing. I think the fact that you've yet to go and discover Redding's catalog, probably the greatest singer, if not the greatest singer, then one of the greatest singers of all time. I'm jealous of you.
LY: Yeah. That's how I feel about certain things too, so I understand that. But it’s exciting for me. I feel like that's how I tap into a new palette for the next project or whatever I work on. I got a whole new mindset and a whole new headspace of just inspiration.
“I MAKE MUSIC FOR MYSELF.”
–JAMES BLAKE
STYLING Blake, Ian McCrae;
Yachty, Self-Styled
GROOMING Nicole Blais
PRODUCTION Joan Studios
LOCATION WSA NYC
DESIGNER, COVER GFX Will Schlesinger
Complex Team:
CHIEF CONTENT OFFICER Noah Callahan-Bever
GENERAL MANAGER Donnie Kwak
EDITORIAL CREATIVE DIRECTOR Aria Hughes
VP OF CREATIVE Gina Batlle
SVP OF CONTENT STRATEGY Joe La Puma
DESIGN DIRECTOR Ben Kopp
SR. DIRECTOR OF CREATIVE OPS Bitna Kim
DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL Deborah Cardoso
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Josh Pitt
COPY EDITOR Rajasri Oltean
PRODUCTION MANAGER David Neylon
GROOMING Nicole Blais
SOCIAL DESIGNER Kyle Garb
PROJECT MANAGER, DESIGN Jomely Tavarez
SOCIAL EDITOR Stefan Breskin
TECH Anthony Rivera
